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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Charlie Olken</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-4095</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Olken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-4095</guid>
		<description>You and I have exchanged private emails on this topic, and I have given it further thought since then. I like the idea of greater information as opposed to lesser information. As a critic, I make note of every bit of information I can get my hands on. Sometimes that information is useful but sometime it is less so. Nevertheless, I like it and I therefore have to assume that my readers will like it.

But that brings me straight on to the dilemma. Alcohol statements on labels are notoriously misleading, and because they are so misleading, they are next to impossible to use to draw a line in the sand of any meaningful value.

Here is why. In the first place, as you state so clearly, the amount of leeway offered to wineries is enormous. Even the under 14%/over 14% line which you rightfully point out is a legal barrier, is now not honored. 13.9% often means less than 14% but not always.

But even if 13.9% means close to that, it has very little bearing on how wines show up when tasted blind. That is because there are so many other factors that come into play. There are 13% labeled wines that taste both hot and fleshy and there are 15% labeled wines that are wonderfully balanced and energetic. Body is not determined by alcohol but by perception. Balance is the same way. Even sweetness can be hidden by other factors. Go look at Champagne. Wines with over 1% sugar taste tart to most of us because their acidities are so high. And that is before we get into discussion of winemaking techniques like reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol in wines that nevertheless smell and taste of desiccated grapes.

When a Riesling, my favorite grape by the way, arrives with a notation fo 11% alcohol, I ahve no way of knowing whether the wine is 9.5 or 12.5 per cent. It helps more to know the producer than the alcohol notation.

Thus, using alcohol as a determinant is simply not reliable enough for me to post it for my readers for every wine tasted. Better that I comment on balance, heat when perceived, fruit or prune juice, perceived acidity and balance, etc, than posting unreliabel alcohol numbers.

You may like Zins under 14.5%, and frankly, that generally puts you in the hands of certain producers whose names you already know and prefer. But, taking Ridge as the most obvious example, do you think that a 14.7% notation on a Ridge wine makes it out of balance or hot? Not in my experience. But, wineries like Rosenblum, now under Diageo, are going to make 14.7% stated alcohol wines that have very different ripeness, fermentation, acidulation and oak regimes and taste very different. They might also use alcohol statements differently. Neither you nor I know the truth here, and that is why, when we get to numbers like 14.5% alcohol in Zinfandel, the line in the sand is not worth the energy it took to draw it.

I would argue that words, not numbers are the things that wine reviewers owe their readers, especially since numbers are not reliable. 

Thanks for letting me play in your sandbox. I think the day may come when we get reliable alcohol numbers, reliable sugar numbers, reliable acidity numbers and the like and we are then able to educate our readers/students to what those numbers might mean--knowing, for example, that a Chardonnay from the eastern part of the Russian River Valley is going to taste more open than a Chardonnay from the western, coastal part of that AVA even when the numbers are virtually identical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You and I have exchanged private emails on this topic, and I have given it further thought since then. I like the idea of greater information as opposed to lesser information. As a critic, I make note of every bit of information I can get my hands on. Sometimes that information is useful but sometime it is less so. Nevertheless, I like it and I therefore have to assume that my readers will like it.</p>
<p>But that brings me straight on to the dilemma. Alcohol statements on labels are notoriously misleading, and because they are so misleading, they are next to impossible to use to draw a line in the sand of any meaningful value.</p>
<p>Here is why. In the first place, as you state so clearly, the amount of leeway offered to wineries is enormous. Even the under 14%/over 14% line which you rightfully point out is a legal barrier, is now not honored. 13.9% often means less than 14% but not always.</p>
<p>But even if 13.9% means close to that, it has very little bearing on how wines show up when tasted blind. That is because there are so many other factors that come into play. There are 13% labeled wines that taste both hot and fleshy and there are 15% labeled wines that are wonderfully balanced and energetic. Body is not determined by alcohol but by perception. Balance is the same way. Even sweetness can be hidden by other factors. Go look at Champagne. Wines with over 1% sugar taste tart to most of us because their acidities are so high. And that is before we get into discussion of winemaking techniques like reverse osmosis to reduce alcohol in wines that nevertheless smell and taste of desiccated grapes.</p>
<p>When a Riesling, my favorite grape by the way, arrives with a notation fo 11% alcohol, I ahve no way of knowing whether the wine is 9.5 or 12.5 per cent. It helps more to know the producer than the alcohol notation.</p>
<p>Thus, using alcohol as a determinant is simply not reliable enough for me to post it for my readers for every wine tasted. Better that I comment on balance, heat when perceived, fruit or prune juice, perceived acidity and balance, etc, than posting unreliabel alcohol numbers.</p>
<p>You may like Zins under 14.5%, and frankly, that generally puts you in the hands of certain producers whose names you already know and prefer. But, taking Ridge as the most obvious example, do you think that a 14.7% notation on a Ridge wine makes it out of balance or hot? Not in my experience. But, wineries like Rosenblum, now under Diageo, are going to make 14.7% stated alcohol wines that have very different ripeness, fermentation, acidulation and oak regimes and taste very different. They might also use alcohol statements differently. Neither you nor I know the truth here, and that is why, when we get to numbers like 14.5% alcohol in Zinfandel, the line in the sand is not worth the energy it took to draw it.</p>
<p>I would argue that words, not numbers are the things that wine reviewers owe their readers, especially since numbers are not reliable. </p>
<p>Thanks for letting me play in your sandbox. I think the day may come when we get reliable alcohol numbers, reliable sugar numbers, reliable acidity numbers and the like and we are then able to educate our readers/students to what those numbers might mean&#8211;knowing, for example, that a Chardonnay from the eastern part of the Russian River Valley is going to taste more open than a Chardonnay from the western, coastal part of that AVA even when the numbers are virtually identical.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by wrtish</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-4091</link>
		<dc:creator>wrtish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 02:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-4091</guid>
		<description>@1WineDude - German wines definitely were not made for Twitter-length reviews.
@Adam - I really appreciate your input; I stand corrected re Chenin. While I see your point about RS, TA, pH, those are numbers consumers can not see on their own. But ABV is already something public. I can&#039;t see how adding the ABV information to reviews skews a reader any more than including price. THe mutual goal of reviewers and winemakers alike should be to help wine enthusiasts find wines they enjoy. Those who pay attention to the wines that hit their sweet spot, so to speak, CAN, in my experience find some patterns to their taste preferences related to alcohol. As stated above, in my case, I prefer Zins that are more claret-like, and these are usually under 14.5%. Raising awareness of alcohol is not meant to bash any one type of wine; it is meant to better equip wine lovers to navigate the vast wine sea. I simply think that reviewers whould accept the reality that including ABV information in their reviews is a responsible policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@1WineDude &#8211; German wines definitely were not made for Twitter-length reviews.<br />
@Adam &#8211; I really appreciate your input; I stand corrected re Chenin. While I see your point about RS, TA, pH, those are numbers consumers can not see on their own. But ABV is already something public. I can&#8217;t see how adding the ABV information to reviews skews a reader any more than including price. THe mutual goal of reviewers and winemakers alike should be to help wine enthusiasts find wines they enjoy. Those who pay attention to the wines that hit their sweet spot, so to speak, CAN, in my experience find some patterns to their taste preferences related to alcohol. As stated above, in my case, I prefer Zins that are more claret-like, and these are usually under 14.5%. Raising awareness of alcohol is not meant to bash any one type of wine; it is meant to better equip wine lovers to navigate the vast wine sea. I simply think that reviewers whould accept the reality that including ABV information in their reviews is a responsible policy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Adam Lee/Siduri &#38; Novy Wines</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-4082</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Lee/Siduri &#38; Novy Wines</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-4082</guid>
		<description>Tish,
First off, I think we should consider when and why alcohol levels were listed on wines in the first place.  It is actually a fairly recent phenomena.  Go back and look at old labels from French producers, California producers, and others and you don&#039;t see alcohols listed.  It also seems that it was much more common in CA than in France (not surprising given our Prohibitionist past).  Your emphasis (in bold) that it should be listed in wine reviews because it is regulated on labels seems to imply that this is something that has extra special meaning and yet it is rarely new.

You also mention that alcohol levels have been rising in recent years - certainly the case.  They were sometimes as high, if not higher, in the mid-1800s.  Check out Olney&#039;s Romanee-Conti book about the alcohol levels in those wines in the mid-1800s and you see numbers in the 14 and 15+ alcohol range.  Alcohol levels will come and go over the passage of time and as vines age I think you will see them get lower (because young vines can sustain higher yields and still produce quality wines.  Higher yields lead to lower alcohols).

I&#039;d also point out (as an aside) that while you say the Chenin Blanc is incapable of high alcohols the Joly Savennieres that came in first in the NY Times recent blind tasting had a listed alcohol of 15%.  And, as another aside, that Randy Dunn picks as ripe as many, but uses reverse osmosis to get the alcohols where they are (and IMHO, over-ripeness is a problem in the taste of the wine - not necessarily related to alcohols).  

My problem with listing alcohol levels in reviews is that, by doing so, it places undue emphasis on one part of a wine&#039;s make-up, while ignoring equally important elements such as pH, TA, residual sugar, etc.  People will focus on this element while ignoring all others (we have seen that with sulfites already which effect a tiny percentage of the population).  Doing this does a disservice to wine consumers.

Adam Lee
Siduri Wines</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tish,<br />
First off, I think we should consider when and why alcohol levels were listed on wines in the first place.  It is actually a fairly recent phenomena.  Go back and look at old labels from French producers, California producers, and others and you don&#8217;t see alcohols listed.  It also seems that it was much more common in CA than in France (not surprising given our Prohibitionist past).  Your emphasis (in bold) that it should be listed in wine reviews because it is regulated on labels seems to imply that this is something that has extra special meaning and yet it is rarely new.</p>
<p>You also mention that alcohol levels have been rising in recent years &#8211; certainly the case.  They were sometimes as high, if not higher, in the mid-1800s.  Check out Olney&#8217;s Romanee-Conti book about the alcohol levels in those wines in the mid-1800s and you see numbers in the 14 and 15+ alcohol range.  Alcohol levels will come and go over the passage of time and as vines age I think you will see them get lower (because young vines can sustain higher yields and still produce quality wines.  Higher yields lead to lower alcohols).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also point out (as an aside) that while you say the Chenin Blanc is incapable of high alcohols the Joly Savennieres that came in first in the NY Times recent blind tasting had a listed alcohol of 15%.  And, as another aside, that Randy Dunn picks as ripe as many, but uses reverse osmosis to get the alcohols where they are (and IMHO, over-ripeness is a problem in the taste of the wine &#8211; not necessarily related to alcohols).  </p>
<p>My problem with listing alcohol levels in reviews is that, by doing so, it places undue emphasis on one part of a wine&#8217;s make-up, while ignoring equally important elements such as pH, TA, residual sugar, etc.  People will focus on this element while ignoring all others (we have seen that with sulfites already which effect a tiny percentage of the population).  Doing this does a disservice to wine consumers.</p>
<p>Adam Lee<br />
Siduri Wines</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by 1WineDude</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-4080</link>
		<dc:creator>1WineDude</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 14:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-4080</guid>
		<description>Great... so now I&#039;ll have to try to squeeze ABV into my twitter mini-reviews? I&#039;m running out of space as it is... and after typing in the names of German wines, I only have about 10 characters out 140 to use for the review anyway...

;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great&#8230; so now I&#8217;ll have to try to squeeze ABV into my twitter mini-reviews? I&#8217;m running out of space as it is&#8230; and after typing in the names of German wines, I only have about 10 characters out 140 to use for the review anyway&#8230;</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.wineforall.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3960</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jun 2010 16:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3960</guid>
		<description>Re: Name a reason why people should care about alcohol levels. 
Wrong question. People don&#039;t have to have a reason that meets any other person&#039;s criteria. If a significant number of consumers are interested in the information, wine reviewers and others who cater to consumers should provide it. Period. If it isn&#039;t useful to you, you don&#039;t have to take it into account, nor do I have an opinion about whether you should. By the same token, I have the right to set my own priorities for wine selection. I drink wine every day. I like both high-alcohol and low-alcohol wines, but I&#039;m not going to pop open a 15% Sineann Cab Franc on a work night. It&#039;s more likely going to be a 9% Dr. Loosen or a 12% Italian red. I buy a lot of wine online and having to guess at this is irritating. I don&#039;t understand why some seem to feel this information should be hidden from me and others who want to know it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Name a reason why people should care about alcohol levels.<br />
Wrong question. People don&#8217;t have to have a reason that meets any other person&#8217;s criteria. If a significant number of consumers are interested in the information, wine reviewers and others who cater to consumers should provide it. Period. If it isn&#8217;t useful to you, you don&#8217;t have to take it into account, nor do I have an opinion about whether you should. By the same token, I have the right to set my own priorities for wine selection. I drink wine every day. I like both high-alcohol and low-alcohol wines, but I&#8217;m not going to pop open a 15% Sineann Cab Franc on a work night. It&#8217;s more likely going to be a 9% Dr. Loosen or a 12% Italian red. I buy a lot of wine online and having to guess at this is irritating. I don&#8217;t understand why some seem to feel this information should be hidden from me and others who want to know it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Pamela @ Enobytes</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3916</link>
		<dc:creator>Pamela @ Enobytes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 15:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3916</guid>
		<description>One thing that has bothered me for a while now is the reality of Dunn’s comment, “…new wines are made to taste and spit—not to drink.” We are so far behind the idea that wine was meant to be enjoyed with food.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that has bothered me for a while now is the reality of Dunn’s comment, “…new wines are made to taste and spit—not to drink.” We are so far behind the idea that wine was meant to be enjoyed with food.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Kathy</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3816</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 22:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3816</guid>
		<description>Do you know what the ABV stats are for online reviews? (wine websites/blog/Facebook/Twitter etc. ). 
It is a shame TTB gives a 1.5% +/- on the label (similar for spirits - thought TTB survey says spirits usually come in below stated ABV on label, within whatever range). 
Many other countries do +/- .05 (EU, Japan..).  Maybe label should be more correct or say &quot;14.0 +/-1.5% unless over 14%, then +/-1%.&quot; After all, there is the govt warning, the sulphite warning...
Shouldn&#039;t TTB, a government public agency, publish continually updated list of all wines and their basics, such as name, real name, and ABV? Or maybe this needs to start with the controlled states. Does nice NH already do it? Does anybody ever actually check the ABV?
Shouldn&#039;t this extend to beer and spirits? There are beers that can&#039;t be sold in some states due to high ABV level.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you know what the ABV stats are for online reviews? (wine websites/blog/Facebook/Twitter etc. ).<br />
It is a shame TTB gives a 1.5% +/- on the label (similar for spirits &#8211; thought TTB survey says spirits usually come in below stated ABV on label, within whatever range).<br />
Many other countries do +/- .05 (EU, Japan..).  Maybe label should be more correct or say &#8220;14.0 +/-1.5% unless over 14%, then +/-1%.&#8221; After all, there is the govt warning, the sulphite warning&#8230;<br />
Shouldn&#8217;t TTB, a government public agency, publish continually updated list of all wines and their basics, such as name, real name, and ABV? Or maybe this needs to start with the controlled states. Does nice NH already do it? Does anybody ever actually check the ABV?<br />
Shouldn&#8217;t this extend to beer and spirits? There are beers that can&#8217;t be sold in some states due to high ABV level.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Mark Fish</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3815</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 22:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3815</guid>
		<description>I agree with Richard, nobody cares, except for maybe self promoting Wine Cloggers. It is an interesting harangue but at the end of the day, it won&#039;t amount to a hill of beans, or grapes, to anyone outside the small audience that reads wine blogs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Richard, nobody cares, except for maybe self promoting Wine Cloggers. It is an interesting harangue but at the end of the day, it won&#8217;t amount to a hill of beans, or grapes, to anyone outside the small audience that reads wine blogs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by Mrs Gabriel</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3811</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Gabriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 21:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3811</guid>
		<description>Many novice wine drinkers use the point system to learn about wine. The higher the number the better the wine is thier reasoning, thinking that it will taste great. With no understanding of palate, food pairing etc. I&#039;ve seen a lot of wine dumped down the drain,(and that&#039;s just wrong) Hot wines are for the tough of tounge.
Wine in Napa/Sonoma has become somewhat homoginized because of the ratings system. I used to like to stop at 5-6 wineries on a Saturday outing. Not anymore! 3 is my max, because I get palate fatigue, and I get to tipsy to fast.
As an aside, I like going to brew pubs that post the alc% in the beers. I can make a descision on what I like and how many beers I can safely have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many novice wine drinkers use the point system to learn about wine. The higher the number the better the wine is thier reasoning, thinking that it will taste great. With no understanding of palate, food pairing etc. I&#8217;ve seen a lot of wine dumped down the drain,(and that&#8217;s just wrong) Hot wines are for the tough of tounge.<br />
Wine in Napa/Sonoma has become somewhat homoginized because of the ratings system. I used to like to stop at 5-6 wineries on a Saturday outing. Not anymore! 3 is my max, because I get palate fatigue, and I get to tipsy to fast.<br />
As an aside, I like going to brew pubs that post the alc% in the beers. I can make a descision on what I like and how many beers I can safely have.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details {So why won&#8217;t major American wine media run %s in reviews?} by NEWSFETCH - May 18, 2010 &#124; Wine Industry Insight</title>
		<link>http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404&#038;cpage=1#comment-3809</link>
		<dc:creator>NEWSFETCH - May 18, 2010 &#124; Wine Industry Insight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 16:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wineforall.com/blog/?p=404#comment-3809</guid>
		<description>[...] Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Alcohol: the Devil is in the Details [...]</p>
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